Loss Of Composure Dooms NC State Vs. Indiana
| Four Factors | NCSU | Indiana |
| eFG% | 44.7 | 54.0 |
| Turnover Rate | 20.4 |
17.6 |
| Off Reb Rate | 41.9 | 35.3 |
| FT Rate | 33.3 | 37.1 |
| Pts | Poss | OFF_EFF | DEF_EFF | |
| IU | 86 | 73.7 | 116.7 | 101.8 |
| NCSU | 75 | 73.7 | 101.8 | 116.7 |
I could start with, "well, I have good news and bad news," and then segue on to about seven different topics. State played hard tonight, the crowd was good, the players fed off it, and the game kinda felt like one of those games back when I was in college and there were actual stakes involved.
It looked like they were going to overcome an 11-point first half deficit and win the game going away after Alex Johnson scored to put the Wolfpack up seven with less than eight minutes to play. But Indiana didn't fade, and yeah, there were some--shall we say--iffy whistles down the stretch, but I can't help but dwell on the three free throws in a row that Richard Howell missed, or that gimme fast-break layup he missed, or that amusing turnover exchange between the two teams. We squandered a lot of opportunities in the second half that could have made those last five minutes different, no matter the calls. So I'm more preoccupied with how we were in control and could have put the game away regardless of the officiating. But it all super sucked hugely. I want to go Jim Bridge on this shit.
We came into the night ranked 293rd in 3FG% defense and Indiana hit 7 of 13, and as I said earlier, there's good news and bad news. The good news is that our opponents will cool off, and this thing that's been particularly damaging to our overall defensive efficiency won't hurt as much as it has. There's a fluky aspect to three-point shooting, obviously, and to some extent we've just been on the wrong end of it. That said, we still do not have an above average defensive club, and that's certainly evident along the perimeter as much as it is anywhere else. There still is a lot of work to be done at the defensive end... fighting through screens, rotating, communicating, taking fewer gambles at steals, understanding how to play your man based on the situation and his place on the floor... it's all lacking. And that's fine. You can't erase x years of bad habits in the time Gottfried has had with these kids.
I'm encouraged, though. It's been an enjoyable team to watch. There is a systemic immaturity that's going to have to be eradicated from these guys, but as long as they're making progress, I'm going to feel okay about where we are in year one of the Gottfried era. As long as they play together and play hard, that's a huge difference, and they're going to be competitive and give us plenty to be happy about, bad habits aside.
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I thought in the 2nd half, Brown and Johnson ran the offense great together. I felt we needed that combination more down the stretch especially on a night that CJ Williams wasn’t at his best at either end of the floor.
Utterly awful game from the refs
they gift wrapped that game for indiana on a silver platter, we shouldnt have gotten off to the slow start and we should have kept our composure but still no excuese
I love the Steelers.
no excuse
for the flagrant foul call, no where in the history of basketball is that ever a flagrant foul, cost us the game really. But we’ll get better. There were some other bad calls some went against Indiana, most were against state.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2011 2:44 AM EST up reply actions
You are incorrect, sir
We got a call very similar to that one against us about three times a year. No where ELSE in the history of basketball is it every flagrant… and my wife the unc-ch fan agreed. I cannot fathom how this itsy-bitsy aspect of officiating can so consistently go against us… whether it’s the hard-on refs had against Bennerman, or the T’s Julius would routinely get for hanging on the rim (for doing things less egregious than you see 10 times every night), or the flagrant/intentional fouls that go against us several times a year at horrific times of the game… this shit happens to no one else.
by wolfonthehill on Dec 1, 2011 5:48 AM EST up reply actions
They changed the rule this year
… supposedly.
There’s no longer an intentional foul. There is only flagrant. Flagrant-1 is if its unintentional and flagrant-2 if it is. Intention isn’t supposed to be a part of it any more.
Except for last night of course.
that's correct
the official called it correctly. It isn’t that the officials are idiots (though that particular crew isn’t great) but the rule change this year is absolutely dumb. The flagrant they called last night was right just a mind bogglingly stupid rule.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Still incorrect
Wood clearly made an effort to go for the ball. I don’t see how you can’t see how the second arm of wood isn’t an attempt at the ball. Which is what Gottfried was pointing out.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
If you're Scott Wood in that scenario
A) don’t foul
B) If you feel compelled to foul, make sure your other arm is NO WHERE NEAR MAKING CONTACT with the opposing player.
Sure, maybe his right arm just happened to hit the dude’s shoulder while he was swiping at the ball with his left. I don’t care…you don’t give the ref an opportunity to make that call in that situation.
www.riddickandreynolds.com
by RiddickAndReynolds on Dec 1, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
How is the rule change dumb?
The intentional foul was the dumbest rule in college basketball and one that the NBA has gotten mostly right for years.
because of calls like that last night
that can end a basketball game when a team is trying to foul. The rule change lacks context in a game situation. Not every “Flagrant 1” is created equal. Last night’s flagrant 1 on Scott Wood is not the same as a flagrant 1 trying to kill a player going to the rim. With the new rule change context doesn’t matter. I hate that for the reasons we saw last night.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I’m mad as hell about this game, because it was given away (and that’s a sign of progress as well, because Indiana’s a good team this year already), but I see the same signs of progress.
Maybe year 1 NCAA’s is too much too soon, but I think it can still be done.
Refs were bad but bonehead plays cost us more.
the thing which upsets me the most is
making the Zeller family happy-again. can we not beat a Zeller?
i am not down on the refs as much as others. Wood needs to learn to leave a player on a break away alone.
i note that the women also lost to NU. wasn’t close: 76-59. the women shot a dismal 29%. that followed their great shooting at Creighton-43%. at least they up’ed their free throw shooting from 41% at Creighton to 64%. it was a career night for freshman Jones of NU who hit 5 of 6 three point shots and was 9-16 from the floor. Creighton killed State from the three point line as did NU, so it is not just hot shooting from that line by one particular team. its a trend-well on the road anyway.
great night!
I'd love to know what OUR kids' parents look like
Instead, we’re doomed to the Hansbroughs and their shitty offspring, the Zellers.
Anyone else notice that Cody looked/played a LOT more like Hansbrough than he did his brother? There’s something fucked up in the gene pool between those families…
by wolfonthehill on Dec 1, 2011 5:49 AM EST up reply actions
you need to do one of your
articles similar to that about UNC football players who graduated and never beat State, but it will be about State basketball players who graduated and never beat a Zeller. :-)
harsh, i know, but it is what it is. notice i used “graduated” as opposed to a more realistic “eligibility”. that was nice of me. right?
You are 100% correct
that Wood has had a bad tendency to either commit super weak fouls on break aways, leading to an And-1, or commiting the intentional. He is 6’6", all he needs to do is challenge the shot like that IU player did against Zo.
It also would have been nice to see him post up Hulls a few times.
I think part of Scott's problem with fouling...
…is that once you get a rep as a “fouler” by doing stupid shit, much like the “flagrant” foul where he should’ve just let the guy go to the basket, you’re not going to get ANY benefit of the doubt. His last foul looked like a pretty clean block to me, but because he has that rep, he got called for it.
I don’t know if he can shake it by eliminating the bonehead fouls, but it can’t hurt.
www.riddickandreynolds.com
by RiddickAndReynolds on Dec 1, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
After that last foul
I turned and finished beating Arkham City.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Wood made the right play
don’t give them the easy two and the big boost of a dunk, make him earn it at the line. It would have worked too if the play had been called correctly because the guy missed a free throw.
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
And yeah - we blew it
Plenty of chances to put it out of reach, between free throws, fast breaks, and chippies (why, oh why did Deshawn have to go so cold… and still keep firing – and where oh where has Macrobeard gone?).
Just fuck…
Howell had a really poor game
from missed lay ups and free throws to too many turnovers. He still seems to be really bothered by height.
Also, in regards to knowing how to defend certain players, there is no way that Brown, or anyone else, should have been going under the screens when he was guarding Hulls (or whatever his name is), his last 3 stands out to me. The guy is < 6 ft tall, make him take the ball into the lane.
I never expected this to be a NCAA tournament team, and this loss confirms it for me. The coaching staff just has too large of a hole to dig out of just teaching these guys the fundamentals of college basketball.
The good news...
…is that there will be plenty of time between these coming games to address fundamentals instead of simply prepping for the next opponent.
It’s tough to teach when you’re in the midst of a 3-games-in-one-week stretch, but 3 in 3 weeks…much better.
www.riddickandreynolds.com
by RiddickAndReynolds on Dec 1, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
i do like Gott's rotation.
looks like he has settled on a rotation of 8 players in important/close games. Lowe used an NBA rotation playing 10-11 players. sometimes, it seemed, that Lowe substituted just to substitute. and. i like the fact that Gott sits for much of the game and is not out on the court trying to play.
Wanted to pop over here and offer you guys some good luck on the rest of the season
the team you fielded last night is going to shock some people in the ACC this year. I was floored to see that you guys were picked to finish 8th in conference. I don’t see any way of that happening. This team definitely has the talent to make some noise late into the season, they are just still raw. By the end of the year they’ll be a completely different ball team I’d imagine with the coaching staff in place.
Good luck on the rest of your season and enjoy Scott Wood. He’s one that the state of Indiana let get away. Hopefully that doesn’t happen again.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Same to you AJ
You guys looked good last night… hope you can give OSU and Wisc a run this year toward the top. Y’all played pretty well last night and congrats on the win.
FYI – you are much better than the Maryland posters, you are welcome back anytime, as long as Steven allows it.
Thanks JustAJ
We will see you again sometime. We’re just a little behind you in the rebuilding cycle. Let’s plan to meet in the national championship game in three years, okay?
Thanks AJ for the kind words.
Re: being picked 8th, it’s a once-bitten-twice-shy thing. The ACC media picked us to finish 4th on the strength of the incoming freshman class we had…only to see us fall flat on our face. It’s natural they would pick us low given those same players make up the nucleus of this team, and oh yeah, there was a coaching change.
I hope the rest of the ACC gets its act together soon, otherwise the RPI of every school in the conference will sag and the two or so bubble teams hoping to get in will have lower computer numbers than those schools they’re competing against for a spot.
www.riddickandreynolds.com
by RiddickAndReynolds on Dec 1, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Throw in a "last year" in there somewhere.
www.riddickandreynolds.com
by RiddickAndReynolds on Dec 1, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks
Looks like you guys may be back in the NCAAs sooner rather than later. Good luck the rest of the way.
Good game
I really enjoyed watching this game from beginning to end. Indiana is a lot better team than what they have been and I’m glad they’re doing well again (still hate the Big 10).
Good:
Rebounded well on the offensive glass, played hard for a majority of the game and liked the cohesion we showed fighting back.
Bad:
Our lack of 3-pt shooters is a problem, Richard Howell is a problem, CJ Williams is a problem.
I’m looking at Brown on the 3-pt shooter issue, he and CJ Williams need to find some sort of stroke from the outside just to free up Wood. Richard, oh Richard what happened. You are regressing back to last year. I don’t know if you’re getting tired or just lazy, but the energy and composure you had up until Vandy has faded drastically. We need you to be competitive buddy or else it will be another long year. CJW, I will teach you how to play base-line defense if you just stop looking at the half-court line while guarding arond the 3-pt line. I thought CJW would be one of our better defenders but he has become too occupied with looking for the screener coming his way.
On other notes, that Flagrant crap call was awful, especially when IU got away with one earlier in the game (just call it both ways), and there were some others, but overall, I thought the refs were good (much better than the Jersey tourney refs). CJ Leslie is a stud again, but still needs to learn to dribble as little as possible.
Brown, I was disappointed in last night. As the PG, you have to go TO the bball to receive the pass, not try to post up the defender at the top of the key. You need to be shooting more, be more aggressive on your drives, and demand the ball in your hands at all times, because no one else outside of AJ can handle the rock for more than 3 seconds. Brown looked too lethargic on the defensive end and too lazy on the offensive end. Hope its just getting over the flu, but you are a stud kid, and you need to start playing like one again.
In the end, IU is a good team, congrats to them, they beat us. I hope we get a second shot at them at the end of the season.
New system, new roles, new players
You can tell by the lineup changes that the coaches are still trying to figure out what they have. You can tell by the runs we make that we have the ability to be very good, but we lack the consistency. Both of these will get better over time if the coaches and players are doing their job.
I think we are a .500 team in the ACC. Luckily that’s usually more than enough to get you to the dance.
ACC RPI isn't what it used to be.
Making it to the NCAA’s by going 0.500 in league play with a soft OOC schedule or not enough signature OOC wins is no longer a foregone conclusion. Just ask Seth Greenberg. Stanford and Syracuse loom large now.
by non_sequitur on Dec 1, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
0.500 in this year's ACC
with the ACC schedule that we have, will definitely not be enough to go dancing. 9 wins might not even be enough.
by PACKHOOLIGAN on Dec 1, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
But I thought
VT problem is that they didn’t even play anyone not just that they didn’t beat anyone. I think the committee is favorable on teams who at least schedule good teams
I love the Steelers.
by tannofsteel84 on Dec 1, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, I can see us getting a benefit of the doubt
over someone like VT/Clemson who routinely play no body OOC. We’ve started the year against how many teams that were in the dance last year? Plus Stanford and Syracuse still to come and an “away” game against St. Bona. I’m not concerned about our RPI, if we get to 9-wins in conference. Just have to hope the rest of the league doesn’t nose-dive and make those 9-wins be a 10/11-win.
Hell, I pray we can get to 9-wins in conference, when’s the last time that happened?
The RPI issue is exacerbated by...
…the fact so many ACC teams have lost winnable games out-of-conference. That’s going to drag down everyone’s individual RPI, which will in turn negatively impact the conference’s overall RPI. And that means once conference season play begins, every win won’t count as much toward improving our RPI and each loss will hurt more. Basically a conference’s overall RPI is fairly locked in once conference play begins. Teams (like us, in all likelihood) hoping to sneak into the dance with a .500 record will look worse to the selection committee if a conference’s overall RPI is down.
It might not seem like a huge difference, but as we’ve seen in years past, NCAA bubble teams all have very similar resumes, and a difference of 10 or so places on the RPI ladder might make the difference to a team praying to get in.
www.riddickandreynolds.com
by RiddickAndReynolds on Dec 1, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
If we were 8-8 with wins over Texas, the Bonnies, and either Stanford or Syracuse...
I’d feel pretty good about that resume. We’d get a little extra credit for winning on the road against St. Bonaventure and (potentially) Stanford. But there’s still a lot that has to shake out…we don’t know how good Texas is yet. Maybe that one doesn’t look so good down the line, though that seems unlikely to me.
everyone is making good points
But I still say 8 gets us in as long as we avoid bad losses or get a signature ooc win. Neither is a small task of course. But both doable.
by PackMentality on Dec 1, 2011 12:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think if we only win 8 ACC games
that means we had some bad losses.
We play unc, wake, GT, BC, and Miami twice
home against Maryland, UVA, and FSU
away against Duke, VT, and Clemson
This is possibly the easiest ACC schedule out there.
i agree 8 is our number
give or take, but we better be on the take side if we want to dance. The acc is horrible this year, witn unc and duke being the only sure things for the tourney. Even fsu is questionable.
by ginger avenger on Dec 1, 2011 3:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A Few Things...
1) Scott Wood did the right thing…executed it poorly…but remember the scenario…we were down by 2…just turned the ball over…you always foul. Hindsight is 20-20 but you foul in that situation because you make the guy earn his points at the line with no time on the clock. AND he missed one (like you want him to)…so that would’ve been a 3 point game. You never let a guy just score when you’re down, always make him earn it.
2) CJW’s inability to protect baseline, three times in a row was the most disturbing moment the entire game…that not only gave them points, it gave them momentum.
3) Howell had his worst game of the year. He was just generally out of it. Missed free throws aside, if we do miss the NCAAs by a hair I’ll replay us being up by 3 with a momentum building fastbreak and Howell missing a lay-up at the rim.
4) Lo Brown, CJL, Wood, and Painter all played well. Of course each made some costly mistakes (Browns TOs, CJLs jumpshot, Wood’s fouls, and Painters 3 missed mid-range jumpers). Overall they helped us more than they hurt us (Brown’s aggressiveness, CJLs effort, Wood’s stroke and Painter’s Painters Rebounding)
5) We need to beat Stanford and/or The ’Cuse and hold serve in our other non-conference games…the ACC is so bad this year that there are only maybe 3 other teams that may have a positive effect on our NCAA resume with a win. UNC, Duke & UVA. Unfortunately, we only play those three a total of 4 times…so we have a lot more chances for a “bad loss” then we do a “good win”
A couple more ...
1) I think Scott tends to make the emotional foul sometimes. He needs to be smarter, we need him on the court.
2) Totally agree with your second point. That #4 eating CJW’s lunch repeatedly was scary. He’s our ‘lock down defender’.
3) Crean said up front that he thought Howell was a key to our success and he wanted to focus on him. Well they did it. We need to work on the entry pass. Gott said in the pre-game that we wanted to work it inside and wear them out and/or collect fouls. It didn’t work. And Zeller gets some of the credit for that, he’s going to be a beast.
4) Three point shooting – If I remember right, when reading the bios of our incoming coaching staff it mentioned that Moxley was good with guards, and particularly coaching 3-point shooters. Okay Rob, start working with the most likely candidate, AJ who made his rep as a bomber out in Cali. Then continue down the alphabet to CJ who has hit some key threes in the past.
We really really need AJ come around
He had a solid, lengthy track record of three-point shooting in Cali. He’s our best bet for a second sharpshooter.

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