Just Tell Me Where To Sign
by Akula Wolf on Aug 12, 2011 4:28 PM EDT
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PrintEarlier today, James wrote extensively about conference expansion and a potential move to the SEC, and as long as the rumor mill is churning, I might as well add my two cents. Granted this is all extremely hypothetical since I don't believe the SEC would ever turn a serious eye toward NC State. It is fun to ponder, though, and I completely agree with James' opinion here:
All that said…would State make that leap? Should they?
I think the answer is a clear "Yes" if given that opportunity.
While we pine for the venerable ACC of yesteryear and curse the thought of leaving a league founded in large part because of the vision of Everette Case and N.C. State, the cold, hard facts are these: Expansion is inevitable, and there will be those left out who suffer tremendous financial consequences because of it.
I'm a little surprised at how easy this decision was for me; in general I am staunchly against any sort of change in sports because it violates my nostalgic inclinations and I am a romantic sap when it comes to tradition. I'm the kind of guy who keeps ticket stubs from any sporting event he goes to. Even the yellow student tickets from when I was in school. Why they were yellow, I do not know. So on some level it would pain me to see State walk away from so much history with the Big Four and the rest of the ACC's founding members. But as James points out, this is no time for romantic crap--it's about money and securing a stable future for NC State athletics.
Do we really want to cast our lot with the S.S. Swofford? If Larry Scott is running the show, I might feel differently about hitting the eject button, but as it is I have no confidence in Swofford and in turn worry quite a bit about the ACC's long term viability and/or interestingness. If the ACC ends up in a reactive mode--and it will, because the financial dominoes have fallen and Swoff hasn't the leverage to proactively add schools that would genuinely improve the league's financial standing--preserving tradition isn't worth having to exist in a league with Central Florida and Memphis or Pittsburgh and West Virginia. It doesn't matter to me that some of them bring valuable properties; they can't fully compensate for whichever programs get poached, and mostly I just don't care in the slightest about watching my team play any of them.
So I, for two, would welcome our new SEC overlords. If they could give us a few years to get a football staff in place that has a big time SEC recruiting mentality, that's all the better, because we're ill-suited for this transition now. And if you're in the SEC you have to have a character for a football coach or you just look weirdly normal. That's no way to make a first impression.
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Real Questions...
I know we (and I use that term loosely because none of us commoners would ever see it) would make a lot of money & have some marquee games in the SEC…
But do you really believe we could ever realistically compete for a conference championship in the SEC?
Would we be willing to sacrifice 5, maybe 10 years of struggling to even make bowls playing against the likes of ’Bama, UF, LSU, etc before we became solid again?
you hit on some of the really tough questions
I share those concerns. But if the option is a) go to the SEC or b) slowly fade into obscurity in a weakened ACC, I think for the sake of financial footing and stability, we have to go SEC. The SEC isn’t going anywhere, so we could all stop worrying about our future. I guess partially it depends on how much you value that vs. staying home and rolling the dice a bit. And again we’re going into an extremely hypothetical area since we still don’t know what any of this expansion stuff means for the ACC yet.
Do I think we could compete conference titles in the SEC? Not on a regular basis, no. It would really depend on the next staff—we get some guys who can recruit like Chuck Amato did at his peak, then I don’t think a sporadic run at the SEC East division title is out of the question. Being in the SEC would be a huge trump card for in-state recruiting; if we could leverage that properly, who knows? I feel like if Sakerlina can do it, we could too. With the right staff. (cough Charlie Strong cough)
It would take probably 5 years of sacrifice, though, I agree. We have the infrastructure in terms of facilities and fan base, but it would take time to extend that commitment to the recruiting trail and reap those dividends.
We don't compete
for conference titles now, so I don’t see the big deal. When I read this scenario, my gut response was – this would be awesome. Anyways, at least East and West make more sense than Coastal and Atlantic.
It already left
I am oldish and wish for the old times. However, I have no qualms in leaving the ACC ’cause I think Swofford and crew already left us. It may be influenced by us mostly sucking, but I think the ACC is now marketed as a 2 or 3 team league in the major sports and they just wants the others to show up (or they shall be smitten)
The Swoff has made it a carolina first league
Unless there is a change at commissioner, there really isn’t much point in staying around.
Then there is the problem of his handling raiding from other leagues and further expansion in the future. He screwed up the last expansion, can’t say I have any confidence in his leadership when the rubber meets the road. At least with SEC football we can see some decent teams come to town to play us.
by riddickfield on Aug 12, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Lest we also forget...
State could be looking at potentially doing away with some non-revenue sports unless it can increase revenues. If it came down to either leaving for the SEC or doing away with the swimming and diving programs—that have a recent national title and several Olympians in their history—just to remain in a depleted ACC, I would hope we’d all choose Option A.
www.riddickandreynolds.com
by RiddickAndReynolds on Aug 13, 2011 2:40 AM EDT reply actions
As a Vol fan living in Durham (and in grad school at UNC)
y’all are my personally biased top choice if the SEC expands East. North Carolina and Virginia are the only Southern states left without an SEC presence, and it’d be nice to have a road game every other year that’s only 20 minutes away.
And, I mean no offense, but y’all could probably stand to get out from under UNC and Duke’s shadows. Continuing to beat them every year in football hasn’t won a lot of notoriety. Being in the SEC gives you a strong distinguishing mark and recruiting pitch. And it also makes basketball championships easier to win.
And for the worries about competing, look where South Carolina was 20 years ago.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Aug 13, 2011 4:33 AM EDT reply actions
And for the worries about competing, look where South Carolina was 20 years ago.
That’s what I’m sayin’.
Are State fans patient enough...
to wait 18 years before we win our division? 9 years before we have a winning record in conference? have 11 of 18 years where we have a losing record in conference?…because that’s what South Carolina did (even w/ two hall of fame coaches during 12 of those 18 years)…and knowing our fanbase “patience” isn’t a virtue we possess…
I just respectfully disagree is all…I think this move would do more to increase our revenue and a whole lot less to increase our win total…
You’re twisting my point a bit. What I’m saying is that if a traditionless also-ran like South Carolina can work itself to the top, we can do that as well. I don’t know how long it would take, but I do know it would not involve 1-10 and 0-11 seasons like it did at USC. And we’ve been waiting 30 years for a title in the ACC so what’s the difference?
You're right...
and I agree…I don’t think its impossible we can work ourselves up…I wasn’t saying it would be impossible, just that it’d be that much harder…
NC State is nowhere near as bad as South Carolina was
they’d be starting pretty much from 2000 South Carolina, not 1992 South Carolina
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Aug 13, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree to Disagree...
I can definitely dig that perspective…and shout out to Joss Wheden…
In the hypothetical that NCSU
is invited to the SEC. NCSU should absolutely jump. If they come after us, they are going to raid teams in the ACC even if we say no, and then what are we left with?
I have to wonder what the swoff is doing right now. If I were him, I would be on the phone, with Kentucky, Louisville, Tenn, Vandy, Memphis, USC, UGA, WVU, and Pitt. I expect he is on the phone with Duke, UNC, and espn to see if they want to schedule 3 OOC bball games against each other each season (home and home, and on a spaceship).
I envision:
Swofford: “Hey Holden, guess what?”
Thorpe: “What’s that Swoff?”
Swofford: “Terd Ferguson!”
Thorpe: SNORT “C’mon man, I was drinking milk!”
Swofford: “Bam! You just got Swoffed!”
by mplode on Aug 13, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love the possibilities of this meme
Thorpe’s office phone rings
Thorpe: "Holden Thorpe, Chance- "
Swofford: “HOLDEN!”
Thorpe: “Hi John, wha-”"
Swofford: “MY COCK! HAHAHAHA”
Thorpe: “c’mon John, cut it out.”
Swofford: “Oh man, you are so gay!”
Thorpe: “You know that’s not true”
Thorpe’s cell phone beeps
Swofford: “Hey Holden, I just sent you a pic, check it out.”
Thorpe: “Ok, OH GROSS MAN, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?”
Swofford: "Since you like holding my hog so much, I figured I would give you a pic for posterity "
Swofford: “Swoff out!”
by PACKHOOLIGAN on Aug 15, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
sadly i’d welcome it and i love the TRUE ACC rivalries but we’ve always said we’re the best football school in the state (maybe thats just what i’ve been saying) so why not compete with “the best”…. but having LSU, UF, Tenn., or even South Carolina roll in to Carter Finley every other week would be electric.
As hypothetical as it is, if NCSU smacks down Tenn. next year in the opening game it could very well happen. I want an ACC championship first then we “skip town” like CM Punk did at Money in the Bank. hahaha
And after that...
we begin to enter the field to Cult of Personality…
by JEOHankins2 on Aug 14, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm seriously hoping that by 2012
there’s not going to be anybody smacking down Tennessee
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Aug 14, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
If offered, Yes we go, instantaneously
No doubt about it, but I don’t think we will be a top tier choice for the SEC. I hate to say it, but I’m being realistic. Ahead of us, you have to put, in order of my guessing: 1) FSU, 2) Clemson, 3) GT, 4) UVA, 5) State. And that’s if you were only looking to raid ACC teams. This really scares me, because this could really shake up the landscape fast.
If it happens, think you end up with 4-Power conferences: 1) Pac, 2) Big 10 (16, whatever), 3) SEC, 4) some combo of the ACC/Big East (leftovers). If A&M goes to SEC and they plan on adding atleast a 14th team, I look for PAC-12 to immediately jump on Texas and some other schools to keep pace. They have the best Commish. That will trigger Big-10/12/16 to go after Syracuse and some other Big East teams not named UConn. Its all very scary and very exciting at the same time. Just hope we don’t get screwed, feel like we are seriously on the brink of growing to a national team (Mizzou style, Mich St style). One thing, all roads lead to a playoff. Narrowing the field means ADs grab more power, rather than NCAA board or conference commissioners.
It will be interesting to see what Texas does.
I doubt the Pac-12 or SEC would allow them to keep their TV network in place. I suppose they could go the Notre Dame route and become an independent if they could strong arm the BCS to give them some special treatment a la ND.
If there are a bunch of teams moving around that result in the significant weakening of the Big 12 (or whatever it is going to be called) and ACC do they get taken out of the BCS?
I agree with you about State not being a top tier target for the SEC. Florida and SC might push against the addition of FSU and Clemson, respectively. I would see them going after UNC before pursuing us, if they wanted a team from NC.
the Longhorn Network would be a sticking point for sure
Actually may have been a sticking point last summer; can’t remember. The majority opinion (and I base this on Twitter, so…) seems to be that UT would go independent if the Big XII dissolved.
BUT
there are heavy rumors of a UK/UGA/UF/USC voting bloc that will veto any new in-state rivalries. If that’s true, goodbye FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Louisville, and State moves to 2nd on your list. Also, you should substitute VT for UVA. VT is culturally SEC, and UVA is about as far from it as you can get.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Aug 14, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
saw on twitter earlier...
SEC school officials have a “gentleman’s agreement” not to add schools from states already in SEC.
If somehow we do join the SEC then maybe we’d be able to keep the homegrown talent in the state of north carolina. A lot of our recruiting targets always bounce to an SEC school or go to Clemson. I mean really?!
by Rvdbbw on Aug 14, 2011 3:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Clemson's recruiting prowess baffles me
especially given their lack of subsequent production. I guess they do get those players to the NFL after their three or four 8-5 seasons.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Aug 14, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
But have you been to Clemson?
Oh wait, I see your point.
by PACKHOOLIGAN on Aug 15, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
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